Bridget Meyers: Understanding Mental Health Employee Benefits & Genetic Testing

Today's episode is so relevant because just this week my husband and I re-enrolled in our benefits, and I was once again painfully reminded of the big gap there is in the mental and behavioral health benefits provided by so many employers out there. Yeah, absolutely. There are tremendous gaps still. But our guest today, Bridgette, has decades [00:01:00] worth of experience working in the mental health industry in several different capacities.

And she brings so much insight as to how we've evolved and where things have changed, as well as innovations that we could really look forward to. forward to that offers so much help to us all, especially in the realm of health insurance, number one, but also she, she shed some light on genetic testing, which is very valuable information.

Yeah. You know, her experience is, is invaluable and I'm excited to share this. Bridget Myers is currently the Vice President of Sales for Ever North Health Services, where she positions innovative mental health benefit solutions for employers, companies, and other health plan sponsors. She spent the majority of her career working for companies whose products or services contribute to the mental and behavioral health industry.

Prior to joining Ever North, Bridget worked for Genomind, which provides genetic testing to support and guide physicians as they prescribe [00:02:00] medications for behavioral and mental health treatments. Bridget is also the mother of two beautiful college age kids, and she lives in Denver, Colorado. Bridget, thank you so much for being here with Andrea and me.

Yeah. Thanks so much for inviting me. I'm so excited to be here with the two of you to talk about a really important topic about wellness and mental health. So thanks for having me. Yeah. Well, we are excited to get into the nitty gritty with you. You have got a ton of experience and I think that Emmy and I might like maybe just geek out a little bit and ask a Maybe one too many questions or two too many questions here.

But if you will start and expand on what you do in the behavioral health or the mental health space, I think that would give a good platform for the, uh, for the listeners to understand where we're going. Yeah, absolutely. So you're absolutely right. I currently work for ever north health services and prior to ever north.

I were in a variety of roles, one of them being with Jenna mind with genetic testing. But I think if you were look at [00:03:00] the entire longevity of my professional career, it's all been rooted in mental health and wellness. And really providing tools, whether it's software tools, physician tools, lab tests, medications, they've all been rooted in behavioral health or mental health, um, services and solutions.

So currently I am basically consulting all of the employer organizations out there in the U. S. to buy benefit solutions that really support mental health and well being to their employees and their families. So it's a great way to kind of touch many different types of people across many different industries that are looking to elevate the types of benefit plans that they offer to their employees so they can, you know, improve productivity and reduce absenteeism and really create a workforce that is thriving and for their families.

So I really have loved my career this far [00:04:00] and I also have a personal passion for mental health. I have two kids that have experienced you know, mental illness and lack of well being throughout their childhood. And through the resources and tools and the experience I've had in the industry, I've been able to, you know, get them the appropriate care and the appropriate resources and tools.

So that's why I'm here today is really to share with all of you the resources I've been able to extend to my own personal family, as well as to the organization that I get to consult and sell to every day. That's great. Can you tell us some of the trends that you're seeing with employers? You talked about really bringing mental health and the insurance and such to, to the employers to give better benefits.

I'd love to see what the trends are employment these days. Yeah. I mean, even if you look just to the mental health industry outside of just You know, the workforce just in general, one out of every four individuals in the U. S. experience mental health conditions. [00:05:00] One out of every four? Yep, one out of every four.

So 25 percent of the American population is suffering from a mental health condition. So knowing that the employers out there are really trying to elevate the benefit packages and the support that they provide to their employees and their families, because if you look at the degradation of Well being and mental health.

It affects retention. It affects absenteeism. It affects how that individual is performing at work. So these employers are really looking to support their employees so they can, you know, obviously be very productive in the workplace. So the trends that we're seeing, especially on the heels of COVID and the reality is is that COVID actually put the spotlight on mental health.

COVID has a lot of negative impact on the U. S. and individuals, but it honestly put [00:06:00] this incredible spotlight on mental health where employers are really looking at elevating what they're providing to their employees because it had such an impact. And there was a lot of reduction in stigma because A lot of people were raising their hands either during COVID or on the heels of COVID to say I'm suffering, you know, I, I'm not the best version of me and I need help.

And the first place, um, ones typically look to is either their friends or their families. But most of the population in America are working members of society. So they look to their employers to also provide that benefit to them as well. That's super interesting because I was working in a financial services firm in the past, and I remember reviewing our health care benefits as we were choosing.

And I don't remember anybody saying. That here are your medical benefits and here's the mental health package we have to offer you. So what happened to us? Like where would you have come in and how does that work? [00:07:00] Yeah. So it's really interesting that you asked that question because there is, when we go through our benefit elections, um, as an employee, yeah, you're selecting your medical plan.

You're selecting your dental plan, your vision plan. What's hidden in there is that mental health benefits was embedded in your medical. But that's becoming a different trend now where there's organizations entering the mental health industry that just provide mental health benefits. But one thing I really want to mention, you know, during this particular session with the two of you is every employer group typically that has 500 employees or more.

offers what is called an EAP and that stands for an employee assistance program. And this is a program that's offered to all employees and their dependents and spouses at no cost. And it includes short term counseling and therapy, usually anywhere between three [00:08:00] and 20 visits. And it's free. It's free to anyone that is working for an organization that provides an EAP to their to their employees.

So a lot of employees don't know that they have this benefit. So anyone in your audience that's listening to this podcast that works for any sort of organization, I encourage you to look up your EAP benefit program because not only do they offer short term counseling for mental health, they also offer wellbeing courses to improve your resilience or deal with stressors.

They, it also provides work life support. If you're struggling with finding daycare or transportation to work, it is an incredible benefit program for all employees that work for organizations that spend a lot of money, millions a year to provide that to their workforce. That's great to hear. Did you know that, Andrea?

You were nodding your head. Do you, are you already familiar with that? I did. And yeah, I was. And one of the things I remember when I was in the [00:09:00] workforce was that people were worried that if they called into the EAP or use those counseling services, that they weren't going to be, um, that they might be exposed.

Oh, I mean, I know HIPAA and everything, but I remember that being a concern now. Well, what I can say to you is it absolutely is confidential. The employer is buying that benefit solution through an insurance carrier or a mental health vendor and they, it's completely, um, anonymous and blocked and blinded from the organization.

So I would say with confidence that, um, you can be rest assured that it's completely confidential. Because it's outside of the organization, right? It's just like your health insurance. Just like your medical. So you ask yourself, does your organization know when you go to the doctor? They do not. But are most of those remote?

The services on EAP, those are remote, right? That they either they, it's Teladoc or it's um, through Zoom. No. [00:10:00] No. Interesting. Okay. No. So it depends on, you know, who you're, you're purchasing your benefit plan from, but especially on the heels of COVID and in the wake of COVID, you would be surprised. 60 percent of all mental health therapy and psychiatry sessions that are being conducted in the year 2021 and 2022 is at 60%.

So 60 percent of individuals are getting their care virtually 40 percent are getting them still face to face. Um, and there are also other modalities in which you can seek treatment, which is through digital platforms and peer groups and through your community. So there is a hybrid of ways you can seek services in the mental health industry.

You had mentioned, I actually looked at your website of your organization and they said digital CBT. Yeah. So I'm curious about that. And can you explain what that is? Because we always had to do it in person with my kids. It was very, very hands on at that point. Yeah, so it's cognitive behavioral health therapy, and it's a way to interact [00:11:00] through, like, a self guided treatment to increase certain life skills or coping skills, so the ability to build resiliency, or to cope with stress, or learn to fall asleep better, or You know, it's really around building mental health and more preventative, and it's more of a, um, ability to, you know, start building muscle around wellness and not necessarily having to lean into higher levels of clinicians that are more expensive.

So there are ways to treat mental health that doesn't always include an actual clinician, like a therapist or a coach. You can go through digital treatment. CBT being one of them, or even peer to peer, there are peer to peer treatments where you just can get in a room with someone else that's suffering from the same things that you are.

And it's very efficacious to just talk that out with someone else that's experiencing the same thing you [00:12:00] are. That's interesting. It's like a chat room. Yeah. So when you look at, like, the benefits that Or treatments that are available to individuals that are struggling with mental health or want to build more wellness.

in their life, they don't always have to go one particular route. There's options and there's the ability to determine what is the right level of care for the right time for you. So a lot of that is determined through assessments, um, and understanding what is the condition or the symptoms in which the person is suffering from and how long, and you can go through these assessments and they kind of determine, are you on this level?

Or are you on a higher level? Do you need a therapist? Do you need a psychiatrist? Or could you actually benefit from starting at a CBT or a coach? Yeah, that's interesting. Is that what you're seeing or is being presented now to a lot of employers? Is this more preventative approach to mental [00:13:00] health care?

Definitely. I mean, I think that There is an element in the employer sector that, you know, trying to be cost effective with their benefit plans and trying to reach people earlier is more beneficial not only to that individual, but also to the workforce in totality and the bottom line for the organization.

So putting preventative and wellness plans, resources and tools out there before something exacerbates to a place where they actually need higher levels of care is always, you know, the most advantageous for the employer, but also for the individual. Oh, for sure. Bridget, since you've been in this space for so many years and have seen so many changes and, um, evolutions in mental health, what innovations today or that are on the horizon are you most excited about?

Well, I think what's interesting is there's a lot of [00:14:00] technology and innovations, you know, like you mentioned, flooding into the market. So there's a lot of options for individuals to seek care and a lot of options for employers to design their benefits in a way that meet their needs. I think from what I'm seeing is just the ability to start to address a lot of the challenges that we are currently facing right now in the mental health space.

So I know we talked about this. 1 to 4 ratio, which is 25 in the population. But I will mention out of that population, 60 percent of those individuals never get care. And that is where most of the employers and the organizations out there building mental health solutions are really focusing. Because we want to get everyone into care that need it.

And you [00:15:00] might be asking yourself, why is that? Well, there's many reasons, um, one being stigma, right? Individuals still, um, aren't necessarily saying, Hey, I need help. And they struggle internally to overcome it. Or they think that they're just going to snap out of it someday. Then you, you know, you also have to look to just the demand versus supply.

So COVID, while it was amazing for the mental health space to bring so many new solutions and technologies into the space. It did reduce some stigma where people were saying, Hey, this is too much. I really need help. So for every 350 people that have a mental health condition, right? There's only one provider.

Yes. One. That's nuts. So that is why these, that 60 percent of individuals aren't getting to care. So the first and foremost, what everybody's trying to address right now is. We need to have enough providers to treat the individuals that need care. Absolutely. So, there is a lot of [00:16:00] ways in which organizations are trying to address this.

And so, to answer your question, I mean, there is a lot of data going into understanding who might need help by looking at the whole person. So, a lot of individuals that suffer from mental health also have comorbid conditions. They may be suffering from cancer, diabetes, obesity, and other related medical conditions.

So there is a lot of innovation going around that's saying I can start to use artificial intelligence in a way to say. Who's most likely to suffer from a mental health condition based on where they're showing up in the healthcare ecosystem? Wow. Really? Yeah. It's like profiling. Yeah. We're trying to catch them early on.

Right. So it's going to that preventative, right? So if they're suffering from diabetes, how can we make sure that they are not going [00:17:00] in so then you can push preventative care? So that's one big innovation that's happening. But also, you know, there in my previous positions before I went to Evernorth, we talked about genomide and this technology.

Once you've already been diagnosed with a mental illness and it's been determined that you would benefit from medication. There is a genetic test in which that individual can take by the direction of their health care clinician to understand what medication would be best for them and which one they would respond best to increase better outcomes and efficacy.

So that's a really great innovation and I could keep going on and on, but I wanted to mention those because I think those are really important steps towards. better outcomes for those that have been diagnosed with a mental illness and need medication, and also, um, using data to find individuals that may [00:18:00] be swimming in the ecosystem or still not being pan and saying, I don't feel well, I need help and really trying to, you know, push tools to them to, to help them feel better.

Yeah. I guess that makes sense now that you explain it kind of the, the AI technology that can help identify people. Because it's, it's basically saying who might be at risk based on certain factors. That's interesting. Correct.

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So a lot of this that you're talking about is really at the employee specific, but the employees have families. And I know with COVID, especially the kids were So dramatically impacted by COVID and we're seeing, you know, the rise of mental health issues with children. What are some of the things that employers are doing or can be doing to help the employee as the caregiver of those children to help those kids?

either take care of themselves as a caregiver or with their kids? No, that's a good question. Yeah, so there are also caregiver benefits that employers are purchasing regularly, whether it's tied to their, their EAP or their medical benefit plan. There's also with the EAP and the medical plan, they're usually, their dependents are covered.

So I would certainly say that it's not only extended to the employee, but their whole [00:20:00] family. And then again, you know, the tools that are available through the benefit package can be webinars, it could be resources like library content, it could be a resource of on staff clinician that maybe the employer's providing to give access to the family and themselves.

They have on site, like, clinicians or navigators that can speak to them at any point and give them guidance to, um, how to find resources in their community or connect them with a virtual care provider. Um, and usually they're gonna do that after they've done some sort of assessment to understand, like, is this, um, child in crisis?

Are they having suicidal ideation? Are they experiencing depression or are they just, you know, are they having trouble at school? And based on that assessment, they'll determine, you know, what is the best level of care and how quickly should we be getting them [00:21:00] into care. And then also making sure that they follow them through that care treatment plan and continue that touch points with their therapist or their coach.

So you're really seeing that. human element of support and continuity of care through that benefit plan. So I definitely encourage anyone that is, you know, currently employed by an organization that has a benefit package from their employer to really research their EAP and find out how much support and tools that are actually out there for them that they may not have even been aware of.

Yeah. Well, I was just going to say when we were, when, you know, we were out looking for jobs, it used to be, okay, what's the salary and oh, they, oh, they provide healthcare. And that was it. But now the level and the detail that you really need to get into seems like that could be huge in determining for a parent that's looking to switch jobs or even switch, you know, you're, we're an open enrollment right now, right.

Is to determine what, what [00:22:00] packages they're going with. Yeah. It's interesting you say that because through the research that we have done in terms of how employers are buying benefits, employers have done a couple of studies through in their workforce and 82 percent of their employees or employees across the workforce are making decisions on where they want to work based on the benefit packages that they offer and heavily looking into the mental health and the wellness package that they offer.

I think that is all really wonderful for people who have jobs with employee benefits. But, you know, I switched, I switched from a job where I did have insurance through my company. When I switched positions and I knew I had to get my own insurance, I made sure I got the exact same plan. I was told I was giving, I was getting the exact same thing.

But then come to find out all the mental health stuff was lopped off. Do you affect any other [00:23:00] plans or how, how do people get mental health benefits if they're not through an employer plan? Good question. Yeah. So that's where I would say you would probably lean into your community resources or even look into, you know, if you are eligible for like Obamacare or Medicaid, they certainly do have a well supported mental health offering.

But I would say, you know, reaching out to your community resources, maybe your, your children's friends. But I think the first step always is understanding, you know, what I think most individuals think is when they have a mental health concern that they automatically need to go see. a clinician. And that may not always be the case.

Um, we spoke earlier about CBTs or maybe just getting needed or, you know, peer to peer, having the ability to talk to someone that is experiencing the same thing. So I would say, you know, there are [00:24:00] more than just therapists that provide therapy or medication from a psychiatrist. There are other ways in which you can be supported in terms of your wellness and your mental health that are outside of that.

you know, realm of going to see a clinician. Oh, for sure. I do think though that health insurance industry needs to get a little better on offering covered services with therapists. I mean, I think, yeah, I think that holds a lot of people back when they can't afford, you know, 125 session. Absolutely. We had this therapist that took insurance, took our insurance at the time.

It was so great because it's a 40 copay. That is such a huge difference. Yes. Huge, huge. I mean, that, that changes whether you're getting the care or not, really. Definitely. I mean, I think that's another barrier to why that 60 percent of the population that's experiencing mental health issues may not also be seeking care is that it's unaffordable or their [00:25:00] insurance isn't taken by the provider that they want to see.

Right. You know, another element to mental health is it's a very intimate process. when you select a individual to sit with you and do therapy or manage your medication and It's not like going to a doctor and saying hey, I broke my arm Will you cast it because what do we care who casts our arm, right?

But definitely care about the individual that is going to spend time with us to talk about some very personal things That is contributing to our depression or our anxiety, etc. So having choice Of who you want to see and making sure for sure right now that and your gynecologist I don't think that the insurance carriers have quite figured that out yet And it is in a relationship between the providers and the insurance carriers.

I mean not only you know What we tend to see is a lot of providers out there that provide therapy or, or [00:26:00] psychotherapy or psychiatric services. They are not taking insurance because they don't feel like they're getting paid what is considered fair for the service that they're delivering. So there is this huge, you know, insurance company provider network relationship that needs to probably be a little bit more Finessed to get reimbursement rates in a place where providers aren't what we call, you know, fee for service or cash out of pocket and really will allow insurance companies to come in and reimburse them for their services at a rate that their services feel, you know, valued.

You know, Bridget, you're speaking my language right here a few years ago, and we've had to pay out of pocket for our kids for the last 10 years. And we, um, had a better reimbursement rate for out of network for a while. And then we switched and it went down to like nothing. And they're like, we'll just use one of our providers.

I said, my children. since they were [00:27:00] diagnosed have had the exact same provider. There's a continuity of care. It's not unlike you said, I don't care who casts his arm. The fact that my child has gone through 12 different medications and this psychologist or psychiatrist understands what's going on and all of the other treatments.

And when we went up to fight it and see if we could get, they, they were like, no, they didn't understand or couldn't change the environment to make it so that they could accommodate. And it's very, very frustrating and it becomes very expensive to maintain those costs. And, you know, we're fortunate that we can do it, but there's a lot of people out there.

You can't just bounce around from therapist to therapist, from psychiatrist to psychiatrist, psychologist to psych, you just can't bounce around. There's no continuity of care. I agree. I think you're going to start to see that pendulum swing. Um, you know, Evernorth Health Services is an organization that lives under the umbrella of Cigna and Cigna is a very large [00:28:00] health care plan and, you know, working in their behavioral organization, we are doing a ton of work around what we call the member journey, And making sure that individuals can get care when they need it, get to the provider they want to be with, stay with the provider they want to be with, and actually measure their outcomes and ensure that they're quality.

You know, you look at mental health historically and there's no standards of what good looks like. That's changing now because the employer environment is really putting pressure on the insurance payers and carriers to say, we want more and better and our employees deserve that. So I think you're going to start to see that, that shift.

That would be great because it's typically, or a lot of mental health issues are [00:29:00] chronic. Yeah. They're not acute. They're, you know, they're just, they're chronic. So they need to have that continual care. So I'm glad to hear that there is movement and pressure to get something going in that way because it's really, there's a gap.

Yes. Well, there's a lot of more disruptor, what I call disruptors coming into the mental health industry that is taking away from the insurance carrier and saying, we'll provide the care and we'll have the employers pay us directly. So they're kind of going around. So it's putting a lot of pressure on, on the insurance carriers to, to do something different.

That's interesting. Bridget, the statistic you gave earlier about how many people that never received care, do you know any more granular detail on that group? Like what the general demographic is? Are those people like me that don't have the employee benefits? Are they older? Are they the kids? Is there any insight there?

No, I don't have the, it's a [00:30:00] wide, you know, brush stroke of individuals. So it goes from adolescents to seniors, to the uninsured, to the insured, to the, you know, low, what we call low acuity mental health symptomology to very high level, you know, uh, needs. But I think the important point is, you know, why is that?

And like we said, it's, it's stigma, it's cost. It's the demand versus supply shortage and it's Like, uh, Andrea said that continuity of care where, you know, if I don't get matched the right provider and I get different providers all the time, I may give up. It's a challenge that we're all trying to solve for, and some are doing it better than others.

But, uh, I think that what we can all be thankful for is that, um, mental health is being talked about a heck of a lot more than it's to be improving. Yes, the [00:31:00] stigma is reducing. It's still there, but it's reducing and the workplace is providing a safe place for their workforce to talk about it and find the right resources.

Yeah, I think that's huge. It's huge. Yeah, it really is. You know, this is kind of. You got to start talking about it. Right. Oh, a hundred percent. The first step. Yeah. We had, um, emotional support animals in our office. That was new to me. I would love that. You weren't supposed to play with them, but what, what were you supposed to do with them?

They were there for a different purpose. Yeah. No, but it was nice. It just did change. The whole environment was excellent. You know, one of the schools that my daughter went to. They actually had animals at the school to help the kids with their anxiety and such it was it was so touching because they had They had rabbits and they had a bird like birds in cages and then they had a dog I mean, it was just I thought you know what we all need to [00:32:00] grow up on a farm We just need to just all move to farms and live off the land again.

Yeah animals are therapy They are. They are. Do you mind if we pivot back to talking about the genetic testing? Is that okay? Is that what you're going to say, Andrea? Yeah. Love it. I was going to ask a question about the gen You know what? I'll do it at Katie Couric here for all of those who are 50 and older who know who she is.

Um, so we'll, we'll pivot with that. The, um, we talked about genetic testing and tying it back to insurance. Is genetic testing something that is, um, covered by a lot of insurance plans these days? And then we can get into the details of it. See how good that was, Emi? Yeah, that's great. Yeah, you're a pro. I'm a pro.

Unfortunately, it is not covered by insurance. I know that many genetic companies, including Genomine and all of The other, um, genetic testing companies out there for mental health are trying very hard to get the insurance carrier's attention on this. And I [00:33:00] won't get into the rabbit hole of why, but everything has a bottom line in cost.

So right now, where genetic testing stands is that The Medicaid actually is, um, Medicaid and, and, and Medicare to some degree are covering the test in some portion. However, the commercial carriers or the commercial benefit plans are not covering, um, genetic testing. So it is an out of pocket, uh, tool that clinicians will say upfront to parents.

Or individuals that would benefit from it, you know anywhere between I think 150 to 300 I don't know where it's where it is, you know where it is today, but that's what it was when I was there Years back and a lot of individuals are electing to pay out of pocket because of how It has changed so many people's lives in [00:34:00] terms of amplifying how effective medications can be because, as you know, medications have high profiles of side effects.

Um, sometimes they don't work or they're on many medications that could actually be reduced to maybe one medication. So that genetic testing is really useful in selection of the drug. titrating off other drugs and then really dialing in on dosage and then getting people better faster. That's the whole reason.

That it's, you know, it's for, but unfortunately the insurance plans are not covering it. That's too bad. I didn't know that. I actually, I had my kids do that testing years and years ago and I thought it was covered, but I think if anybody isn't familiar with this test personally, I think there's so much value to that because.

You get such a comprehensive look at what could potentially work better than another in terms of classification of medication. And I, I thought it was interesting because there were [00:35:00] other genetic variants that even show, show up in those tests. I don't know if it's common still, but aside from directing a physician as to what is an appropriate medication for that individual.

I remember there was even information on. What's that genetic variant that looks like a bad word, M T H F T R, the methylation variant I think is what it is. There's a lot of good information in there to get, yeah, even besides medication. Yeah. So that's where dosing comes in. So that, that's the whole methylation or how we metabolize medications.

So there are some people that are rapid metabolizers. There are others that are slow metabolizers. And based on your. metabolic rate, you might burn through that medication really fast and not reap the benefits of the medication, um, long term or vice versa. You're a slow metabolizer and it stays in your system longer.[00:36:00] 

It could impact side effects. So that's where some of those those genetics or genes that are being tested. To understand what, um, type of medication would work for you is also understanding how do you metabolize these drugs? You know, a lot of times you'll see on, on label warnings and if you're ever taking medication, it says don't take Advil when you're, you know, on ibuprofen when you're on this medication or don't drink orange juice or grape juice or grapefruit juice because you're on this medication.

It's because those, um, certain levels of acidity or the combination of those drugs are impacting the way you metabolize and it could make it higher or lower in your bloodstream. So that is the whole purpose of those kind of contraindications that you see on your, on your medications. I never heard that.

Can a parent get the genetic testing done for their child directly or do they have to have a physician or a psychiatrist write [00:37:00] a, I don't know, prescription or whatever it is to get those tests? Yeah, so the whether you're a child, adolescent teen or an adult, this test has to be recommended by a psychiatrist or a prescribing clinician.

So it could be an M. D. It could be in a nurse practitioner. or a psychiatrist. So anyone that has prescribing rights can order the test. And then they interpret it then for the parent or the adult or whoever it is, they interpret what, what goes on with that. Okay. And I will say not all, you know, psychiatrists, nurse practitioners or MDs are familiar with the test.

So you want to make sure that, you know, if it, that's something that's really important to you to have done. to go to someone that offers that because typically if you go to an MD or a prescribing clinician or a psychiatrist that doesn't actually administer that test, [00:38:00] they may not be familiar. They may try and talk you out of it because they, they have a personal opinion about these tests.

So I would just say, you know, research those. And if you're looking to find someone that can actually administer those tests, find someone that, you know, has experience with Genetic testing for for mental health. Yeah, I kept it in my kid's medical file because there was even um a section that pertained to Prescription pain medication and when my kids had their wisdom teeth out, I thought oh Maybe they need to see this and make sure You know that the the pain medication is going to be appropriate for them So it's coming it's coming to play a couple times in really unrelated ways How receptive was, was the doctors you showed it to?

Did they? They thought I was a little over the top, I think, to be honest. They didn't know what it was, but I did. I, I brought them a copy and they're like, yeah, I've never seen this before. But I know when my oldest child, my daughter had her [00:39:00] wisdom teeth out, none of the pain medication worked. It was a horrific experience for her, but I had forgotten all about her genomine chart and the results.

So when I went back to it, I was like, that would have been, that would have been a little bit helpful. So I, yeah, so I brought it in when, when, uh, when my boys had their wisdom teeth and everything went great. I don't know if it's related, but yeah, absolutely. How accurate are those tests? Oh, very accurate.

I mean, your genes are your genes, right? So, um, very accurate. I think it's it's the correlation to the gene and the drug is where there is. You know, maybe some interpretation in the scientists out there that say whether or not you know that the drug is actually doing that because of the gene or something else.

I mean, I think that if we were to go to the studies, um, if you were to encounter a clinician that may be, you know, against the test for [00:40:00] whatever reason, the studies have shown that a medication that a clinician would. Select blindly without the test and pair it kind of blindly against the test and prescribe a different medication.

The results are mixed, so they're not seeing the outcomes very widely different between a physician directed medication that they select based on their. clinical acumen versus the test. And I think that's where not the controversy, but the grayness happens. But I can say from working at Genomind and doing it personally and for my children, I have seen nothing but benefit in having the additional data about your genia, you know, your genetics, um, and how your, your metabolism works.

and pair it up to the medication that they prescribed. Yeah, I [00:41:00] remember my daughter had debilitating anxiety when she was younger. And so there was a period of time where they said, the doctor, the psychiatrist said, what we do is we just try medication. And if that doesn't work, then we try another one.

And anyway, so long story short, it was horrible what she had to go through, realizing that these weren't helpful because the effects were really negative. Um, so finally we found somebody who said, we're going to do this genetic test. And sure enough, when I compared the past medication that she had been on, they were on the do not give her this list.

So, yeah, I mean, it's so informative and unfortunately, medications. You know, for mental health conditions, it's a trial and error, and it can be frustrating. That's really frustrating. I think it's dangerous, too. I don't know if I could say that, but I think it's dangerous. Yeah. Your opinion is your opinion, Emmy.

You can always say your opinion. I know we'll have a disclaimer at the end of this one.

It's my opinion and only my opinion. Well, Bridget, thanks for, um, [00:42:00] clarifying all that. And also thanks for sharing a little bit about even your personal experience. That's really meaningful. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. It was fun. Hi, my name is Tracy Slepcevic and I'm the bestselling author of Warrior Mom, A Mother's Journey in Healing Her Son with Autism.

You can find my book, warriormom. org. And we have an upcoming event called Autism Health Summit, in which we will have some of the top doctors discussing how to address underlying biological issues that are plaguing our kids these days and how to address them. And you can go to autism health.com if you would like to buy tickets, and you can use the promo code a HS 50 to get $50 off.

And we hope to see you in San Antonio.

Thank you for tuning in to today's conversation. To join our community and [00:43:00] access more valuable resources, please visit our website at thiswayuppodcast. com. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button and share this with a friend. And to stay connected, follow us on Facebook and Instagram at listen to this way up.

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